Thema: SmartDVB 0.3.0 RC

[jackjavo]

ok good that sosd ttx kb operates once more.
u should b able to use 'UP/down' remote (tools/settings/input/keyboard up/d) for s*bpages.
I've looked at codepage issue (it's not actual codepage issue but like suggested timing/mem oriented, looks ok here, the codepages themselves should be ok)

About ttx links, i think we're speaking about the same there (if you look for example at NED1 19.2 u should see those 24 y coordinate images).
I don't see it at that actual station at the image (zdf), so unsure if ur  TerraTec gets other data there, coz i also don't see it with other ttx mdapi addons?).
But could still be issue coz it's just made ofcourse, i'm unsure which ttx pages should pertain to that. The ttx specs call them FLOF navigation which go at
Y=24 packet values to be precise. So unsure there, let me know which other pages for sure (also compared to other dvb ttx apps/addons) should show them.
So let me know if NED1 for example works for u so we have like common situation. Also there like said previously remote red/green etc should operate (when seen
i'd imagine).

Excuses about the 'num lock' kb teach, i should've mentioned that, nd yes the kb process method for the osd is kind of complicated but worth the trouble
Not sure about extra remote options for normal digits, i might add the specific 0-9 digits to the ttx sosd only like exception coz people would expect that there.

[jackjavo]

new tst with ttx charset alterations sent (i didn't notice it at dutch mind control pages). Quite lots altered once more at ttx module (also to remove some odd refresh issues i had, might introduce new issues with ttx but it's worth trouble to optimize imho). For me FLOP nav. seems to operate where i found it, but don't really see it at lots of ttx stations so might still need alterations
br,
j

[Jürgen]

One little thing about TTX: I think it uses the wrong coding, german Umlauts are not shown correctly. Is there a setting with which I can change the coding?

When TTX is opened, right click, Font.
Check Turkish script there, not Western.
We've had this before on many other DVB soft.
Turkish is the most compatible TTX codepage for Germans.

BTW, I have just mentioned an issue with frequent changing of the code page even on a static page.
Once that would be fixed, we may have to check this setting again. depending on the way this was done.

@ Jack
Where exactly do I find NED1 to compare?
n.b. I don't have access to any crypted channels here.
Now as you mentioned it, FLOF should be correct.
Works on my receivers and, as you can see on the Terratec screenshot, also on my Cinergy.
Nethertheless, there may be some tiny but important differences between Dutch and German transmissions, one of those being proprietary then.

FYI, I don't seem to have a chance to test the Dec. 24th version tonight, as I've got a very poor DL rate from dropbox ATM, and several broken files already.
Will try again tomorrow.
  
Merry Xmas

Jürgen

[Snoop]

Thanks for your work and a merry Christmas to you!

Thanks, Jürgen, I will try.

[Jürgen]

Finally I succeeded in downloading sdvbtst24122012.rar

Short test rsults:

The TTX code page seems to be stable now
-> For proper German umlauts check font property Turkish code page.

TTX sub pages control by keyboard is OK once keys for UP and DOWN are defined.

Still no trace of FLOF line 24 here.

Still, if activated OSD chanel list by key "C", I can't close this, except if closing SmartDVB.
Repeating "C" leads to OSD field activated stepoping to the right, then again, opening SmartOSD Info
Exit this, I can step UP or DOWN the list, ENTER to switch station, ...
...or another "C" to step left to the list (of lists)...
...but no way to close OSD channel list.
Need some EXIT / ESC there.
This kind of OSD is not part of SmartOSD, it's older, am I correct?

Best regards

Jürgen

[Snoop]

I can't check "turkish" on the fonts page as there is only western, but the Umlauts are ok now.

[ritschibie]

Hi

My new (old) DVB-card is working and I tested sdvb 0.3.08 with the new card again:

- as Jürgen and Snoop I can confirm this version closes sdvb properly
- with alphacrypt light and SKY card I can record multichannel but still there is only one of the .ts-streams decrypted (3 streams recorded)
- after declicking "Set aspect ratio from source" the manual selection of aspect ratio remains stable

No other "unexpected" findings for now...will continue testing 

Ritschie

[dada]

I have set codepage "westlich" and the Umlaute are good! With the OSD Channel list i am having the same problems as mentioned by Jürgen. Thanks Jack and merry christmas.

[Jürgen]

I can't check "turkish" on the fonts page as there is only western, but the Umlauts are ok now.

This may also depend on your system's language(s) settings, starting with the origin of your Windows install disc, and may even be, on the original software / driver for your tuner.
However, if it's OK, better not even try to change anything.

And most important, obviously the char set used / read does not change falsely anymore.

Best regards

Jürgen

[jackjavo]

hoho:
I also don't have access to crypted stations (but ttx still operates coz mostly ttx PID's r not crypted). NED's at 12515 H 19.2. But i've looked at this ZDF flof issue, don't seem to be that coz ttx pckts 24/27 r required for that but don't look like they're sent or total not accor. to specs. I read that that FLOF could be introduced by philips some time ago which would make it logical that it kinda operates at dutch stations. Could be that zdf etc use other method which according to specs would be TOP (which would not be F*STTEXT method then, but that's entirely different so still unsure there. I'd like more knowledge about this before spend too much time at that. Also other ttx addon mdteletext which´s been mentioned here before shows ned (which obviously's flof), but not zdf. Google don't provide much else there too, besides that it might be aforementioned. Does that terratec also provide some form of special index pages etc?

Key 'C' station issue's obvious bug wrt old osd indeed It needs to not be shown when VMR osd's disabled ofcourse. Besides that old OSD only operates correct when old treeview's at use (i consider that old VMR osd kind of obsolete 'nyhow).

@rtschb: don't know alphacrypt light, is it MDAPI addon? If so ofcourse you have multiple 'plugins0/plugins1/plugins2 etc' at plugins folder for each additional crypted rcrd? I'm not sure if d*d* tried more then 1 decrypt previous? Cut still b bug.

Codepage issue could also be just fnt related, some fnts don't support all codepages (default supplied digital fnt for sure not, cut b prudent to alter that too then), try to alter that to for ex 'courier new' or whatever u have at ur system.

br nd merry xm too ofcourse..

[ritschibie]

@jack: alphacrypt light is a cam module mostly used for Sky cards here (with "SKY" only for the nagravision encryption afaik). Have to have a look into the sdvb folder if it's still organized as you wroite (plugins\plugins0\plugins1 etc.). Will report later on...

[Jürgen]

Just tried on BVN, 12515 H 19.2, and FLOF seems to be working fine there.

BTW, Terratec Home Cinema shows that line 24 on both, Dutch and German stations.

Does that terratec also provide some form of special index pages etc?

What exactly do you mean?
There's nothing unusual to be found. And that original soft is pretty limited anyway. Does not even allow to see channel props...

Can't tell anything about possible technical differences, as the only TTX specs I have ever seen, during my TV mechanics training in 1986, came directly from Philips. Should have been to early for FastText, TopText or alike.
But anyway, sorry to have to admit, I did make a private copy then, but lost it on some bad roof leakage several years ago...

However, this FLOF issue not just effects ZDF stations, but most other German stations and providers.

The only German stations I've found now, with that extra base line being shown on SmartDVB, are RTL Television (12187H 19.2) and the RTL locals along there.
But even on RTL II, RTLNITRO and SUPER RTL on the same transponder, no such line.
Same goes for DVB-T here, only the local RTL version, RTL HH SH, brings it up on SmartDVB, no other station.

Compared with my DVB-S2 and DVB-T receivers, the internal DVB-T tuners of both my TVs and even on analogue cable, and they all show that base line, and colour keys are working on all stations (mentioned).  

Obviously there are two slightly different ways to transmit this content.
This might of course also depend on some other TTX option, like TOP.

EDIT

Just read a bit through the German Wikipedia page on Teletext
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletext
and it seems, the Germans often are using TOP-Text instead of FLOF / FasText.
BTW, an ETSI document ist being linked there!!!
http://www.themm.net/~mihu/linux/saa7146/specs/ets_300706e01p.pdf

n.b. the Dutch Wikipedia does not provide the same amount of details on this

EDIT ENDOh well, quite often I like to think, some incompatibilities might be introduced with full intention, to either make older hardware obsolete step by step, or to make life harder for free programmers or international exchange, even inside bloody EU...  

Of course, I can live with this tiny limitation pretty well, and I've just mentioned this issue, to help you with best possible feedback.

Best regards

Jürgen

[jackjavo]

tx for the research, that etsi doc's the one i operate with indeed. Not much else to be found at the net there. The TOPTEXT section is quite unclear nd not specified at all it seems (they refer to some zdf technical document from long ago which i could not find). Still tried to build it somewhat from data i found here 'nd there. Sending it here premature to make sure it's correct for now, like said still needs alterations wrt stable operation perhaps nd also more of that protocol implementation, coz might be that sb-page lnks r also needed for total correct operation (still could be done from what i've seen but if not needed that's ok too ). I've seen some 24 data get out at most ger stations now, but you need to wait some secs at most for it to show up, not sure if that's the same like other implementations like ur terratec etc. Well lemme know, i'm pleased i could get something out of it after 2/3 research dys

red/green/yellow/blue remote should also work with those ger url's too btw. (edit). Also 'C' station bug should be gone. Also
added simple left/right/up/down mouse gesture at ttx (for prv/nxt page nd s*bpage coz it's easy to do nd i found it useful while doing tsts)..

I agree, difficult to believe such old technology's not documented for the public. But well, these times it's more about technological disadvantages to the people it seems. All these big tech corporation ceo's or whatever are busy with their
10+ y strategy's which for most is about keeping hold of existing closed system whilst thinking about how to earn money the next years with new closed systems where the consumer is made to believe he's buying something amazing. (like i'd like to have seen wireless USB by now also here in holland, stuff exists like 3+ years, for sure not stable like mentioned not even USB's stable, but still would be nice stuff to fool around with, haven't looked much lately, but my feelings about those things is that they are kept from the consumer coz otherwise here and there corporations would loose money with existing strategies, so they r just kept from the stores, who probably all collaborate at that to just earn more money with current existing hardware nd stuff like that would be introduced at due time for them, not for the consumer

br,
jj
edit: ard should be zdf  tech doc if i'm not mistaken

[dada]

Hi Jack,
 just a quick answer. The color TTX (at the bottom) selection now shows up and works but the page selection showing uo to the right of the text lines does not work any more.
dada

[Jürgen]

dada seems to be correct, somehow.
Here, on SmartOSD TTX the LEFT / RIGHT keys won't do P-/P+ any more, instead they are controlling VOL-/VOL+ again.
Though on TTX window they still are matched to P-/P+ as long as the window is open.

Must be some strange kind of collision.
However, I have decided, to change VOL controls away from cursor keys, to NUM block +/- now.
Result:
Instant return of SmartOSD P-/P+ by cursor keys LEFT / RIGHT
Main reason, normally I don't need instant keyboard access to tuner VOL control, as my computer audio feeds the HiFi, all mixer playback controls are set to max.
Plus, even my keyboard has a master volume control wheel and a mute key. This for, I also never thought about installing the original mouse software, to additionally activate mouse keys #9 and #10 for VOL  

But all kind of (mouse left click) page links seem to work normal here, page number links, FLOF / TOP-Text links and the new sub page links. Indeed TOP-Text line 24 started working now.
For me, that short delay after TTX start is not an issue.

Two little design issues (on both TTX versions), that might be corrected, to be completely identical with common TV hardware usage:

1) The RED one is OK, normally P-, but the next one, GREEN, should have the function, you've set for BLUE, normally P+.
YELLOW should use the function you've used for GREEN now, and BLUE the one, that's on YELLOW now.
Please note:
FLOF colours and functions are correct, so changes should then only effect TOP-Text.

2) generally dark blue is not recommended, to be used as text colour on a black background (nor vice versa).
So the right BLUE sector should instead use bright blue for display.
Again:
FLOF colours and functions are correct, so changes should then only effect TOP-Text.
FLOF already displays BLUE part in bright blue.Regarding "C" issue, it seems to be gone due to old OSD channel list function being removed now.
If so, the key(board) setting can be removed as well.
Please ignore this, if you removed it from the install already.
I just did not want to make a completely new setup again, to find out about this.

Anyway, you are doing a really good job  
It's a great pleasure, to participate and see SmartDVB improving systematically.

Best regards

Jürgen